Discussion Notes & Presentations
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presentations. You should see the slides and slide notes.
Week 1 (Aug. 26): Introduction to ENVS 5100-007
- My confusing presentation: Ask
the Questions (Kineman) (this is a big file - takes a long time to download)
- Please send me you email address - I forgot to ask during class. I will
set up an email listserver for the class discussions. You can post your weekly
comments there, and/or bring them to class on paper. I encourage everyone
to read each other's remarks.
Week 2 (Sept. 2): Introduction to ENVS 5100-007
- Roundtable discussion of papers and related concepts
- Is "What is Life" the wrong question? (Margulis and Sagan
paper)
- Yes, but life is not a "thing" - not a special kind of
matter (M&S citing Schrodinger).
- Perhaps Life is a verb - a set of processes
- It is a valid scientific question (Von Bertalanffy)
- Life is the "organization" - the "organismic conception"
- It is the central question biology should be dealing with (Rosen, citing
Schrodinger)
- But life cannot be treated as a "noun" or a "verb"!!
- Life is an "adjective" or "predicate" - it is
an organization that modifies otherwise material systems.
- Life is not a machine - not a mechanism (all three papers)
- Hint about Rosen's view of nature: "the modeling relation."
(we will focus on this as a central principle throughout the semester)
- the modeling relation as epistemology - A complex system is one
that has no "largest," i.e., complete model. Hence a complete
model requires an infinite set of models..
- the modeling relation as ontology - what makes a complex system
complex??? Could it be that it actually CONTAINS modeling relations?
- When modeling relations can be constructed that are essentially
identities, they are representing mechanisms.
- A complex system has no perfectly commuting modeling relations (same
as saying "no largest model (i.e., formal system description.)
- we will read more about modeling relations in the coming weeks.
- Ideas for next topics
- The modeling relation
- Simulation (mimesis) vs "real" systems - contrast Von Neumann
and Rosen complexity
- Questions/critiques
- Rosen's idea of circular causality (and model impredicativity) seems
like a weak definition of complexity, because we are now well aware of
systems that cannot be described by "closed form models," and
yet Rosen still calls them simple or mechanical. Even probabalistic descriptions
he still calls simple and mechanical. How do we distinguish what he is
saying from a debate about "closed form" models vs new methods
of iterative simulation (such as cellular automata)?
- Some suggestions: Rosen defines a complex system as one that is not
"simulable." In other words, even the non-closed form simulations,
while they look "realistic" and produce behaviors "like"
real living systems, cannot describe and predict what a real living system
will do. Hence in what sense are they explanatory? Rosen takes the view
that they are not representative at all of what is actually going on -
they are mathematical approximations to the behavior, but do not get at
the cause.
- This disucssion will continue on the listserver. Students should post their
thoughts/comments on these papers and issues on the list server.
This page is hosted by the Nexial Institute,
Boulder Colorado
Contact: John J. Kineman